Well, I'm sorry to see your site go this way, but you must take the path you feel is right. Thanks for some interesting discussions.

I hate to say goodbye and really hope you will stay because I am learning American Culture through your site.

Thanks for having the site and introducing the Socrates Cafe and then later morality discussions. I look forward to browsing here now and then, although you will not be updating it regularly.

Here's a parting thought - Is it the rules that change, or the motivation behind them?

To uphold the social contract...well, there are things that I do that I won't share. Mostly because I truly believe in "your good deeds must be done in secret..." because I don't want the attention on me. I do know that I try to support those I meet here or in person, those who need comfort and aid. I try. I don't always succeed. I know that what you give will return to you three fold. I'm in perfect agreement when you say we're killing ourselves. So, I listen and support and care. I give money when I can. An ear when it's needed. A few words when they're warranted. My opinion when it's asked. I can't save the world. Just my little corner of it. And after all, my little corner is the drop that raises the first concentric circle. As the late John Denver once said, "you do what you can do and I'll do what I can do and together, we'll make a difference."

Maybe if we stopped focusing on what makes us different for a while...and look at what makes us joined, that would be a start.

My dear, I want you to know that you truly touched my life a lot. You gave me a place to come and think, speak what I felt in my soul, and then learn from others. Maybe I never got that Socratic method down. But, at least, I sure learned how to see others' points of view, see through their eyes. I've met so many here. And I've met you.

I wish you love and joy. I wish you great peace. I wish you much learning as you walk the pathway of this life of yours. I have a feeling that our pathways will cross again and again. But if they don't, know that you left a marker on mine. One that says you are a person of great importance to me.

I bid you peace, my dear Simone!

Dear Simone,

It has been my belief for some time that your 'forum' is one of the better blogsites on Xanga. I have gleaned a lot of disparate and wonderful ideas from this space in the year or so since you asked me to join the Socrates Cafe. I know I haven't been as "active" as the subscribers you mention, and I've sometimes been somewhat overwhelmed with the amount of care given to the "discussions".

I'm at work right now, getting ready to go out to lunch, so I will not tackle the "social contract" question at this time. I've always maintained that tolerance and understanding are essential to a mass communication between different peoples. I have seen this tolerance and understanding practiced in the discussions on this site.

I agree wholeheartedly with what I read in one of the comments above this one. Back in 2001, in my "Message from the Webmaster" on my personal website, AllThingsMike, I wrote, "We are all connected, as living humans, and in the cosmic sense, to the Universal Mind. By sharing my words with you, I hope to connect us even closer. Our differences are very clear for us to see. We need to look for and find what we have in common, and try to understand and tolerate the differences between us. "

I  believe that there are a few individuals who can make positive change simply through their work or their words, and your blogsite here certainly qualifies in my eyes.

I run a blogring called "The Internet Island", and my aims were a bit more lofty when I created the blogring, akin to creating a "perfect society" online. As it stands, the blogring is now basically a "participatory" ring like Featured Grownups, but I have been contemplating having more serious philosophical/moral/religious discussions on the Internet Island blogsite much as you do here. Now that I am reading you are shutting down active participation in this blog, I'd be interested to know if any of your subscribers are contemplating a "move" elsewhere, or if they might want to continue such discussions on my Internet Island site. I spread myself way too thin online as it is, and my art always comes first, but I always try to  be available when a need arises. If one of your active subscibers has already begun plans to "transfer" the discussions to theirs or another blogsite, I would be interested in knowing where, and if not, I will "volunteer" to begin a "side" project on Internet Island.

I'll return to see if anyone is interested in this proposal, and I will be sorry and sad to see the "Simone" presence disappear from Xanga.

Yours respectfully,

Michael F. Nyiri, poet, philosopher, fool

thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

I try to spread a good disease.

i came late to the party but thanks for the discussions that i did come in time for. Best of luck..

Dear Simone,

I'm only a recent subscriber, so I'm sad to see you go. Yours has been the kind of blog I've been looking for. Although I haven't responded to your other posts, I'll respond to this one. I see the social contract on three broad levels: individual, societal, and global.

To me, individual-level part of the social contract is this: do not do unto others as you wouldn't have them do unto you. I prefer it to the positive form because it accounts for the active things people do that they would want others to do to them, but that others might find offensive. It's a simple difference that helps people from overstepping their bounds, to allow them to feel out the people around them and determine just how they can best interact with others.

I've always thought of the societal-level part of the social contract in anthropological or evolutionary psychological terms: we're in this together, without one another we cannot survive. To that end, I believe governments should first and foremost provide for the welfare of their people--they should provide a good, standard level of education, health care, transportation, food, defense (not necessarily aggression), and other basic survival needs. The government should not act in a manner that deceives the people, because the government should be the servant of the people, the means by which the resources that meet our basic needs are administered or distributed.

I see the global-level part of the social contract as a responsibility on both the individual and societal levels to use only what we need, and nothing more. I don't mean this to say that we shouldn't have some luxuries in life, but that we must be respectful of the limited resources that we have--including fresh air, clean drinking water, an intact ozone layer, and a climate impacted by our actions as little as possible. Individuals should be conscious of energy use and reduce, reuse, and recycle to the best of their abilities; governments and societies should make every effort to promote strong communities through good design that is as close to carbon neutral as possible while being efficient and durable. In some ways I see the global level as an extension of the individual level: we should not treat the world as we don't want to be treated.

This may all sound ideal, but I think that much of it is achievable once people begin to set aside greed and realize that although we are all so different, underneath it all we are very much the same.

I know I haven't writen anything for these topics that have been chose but I have spent time pondering what I feel on the said issues as well as reading what others have had to say....and for the expansion that has taken place in my life because of this site....I am truely greatful.

I will miss the thought provoking reads.....but I know everyone has their time and yours takes you somewhere else.....

Thanks.

Sorry to see you go also. I of course didn't know until just a few months ago you had this hidden corner, and have dropped by a few times, almost always in the past tense to a certain item. As I know you and how deep your thoughts are - scaaaarey! - I know how your mind grabs onto a theme and goes for the stab or jab.

In order to maintain a social "contract", one must first determine if it is a "contract" or "contact" that is desired; from there on, it's all relative...

Hugs and take care. See you on the flip side.

I feel very honored to be mentioned as an influence here. Thank you for the lovely compliment.

I do agree that morality is not a universal. It is indeed very individual. There are some concepts that are more universal than others. Most moral codes see at least some types of killing as immoral, for instance. On the whole, though, each of us has a slightly different moral code. That is where the importance of understanding and respect becomes critical. If I want the right to think and believe as I do, I must also accept that everyone else also has that right. To deny that is to give others the permission to take my rights to my beliefs away from me. I also think that we owe it to our fellow humans to try to understand them as best we can. It does not threaten my beliefs if I allow you to explain yours to me. You are right that many people have trouble with that. I think the world would be a better place if we could all give up the postion that "If you do not agree with me, you are wrong." In truth, we really do not know who is wrong. It is possible that nobody is wrong.

I have greatly enjoyed the discussions here and I am sad to see them end. On the other hand, I do understand that trying to facilitate the types of discussions that we have had here can be stressful. I wish you well and hope not to lose contact entirely.

If this forum is such a success and that we learn from your insights, why do you have to leave? Must people always leave? I have also thought about leaving my xanga--but I find that I could not do it. Simply because this is a part of my life now. I am not willing to just part with it for any circumstance. I will and still will always write in the coming years, whether I am already working, married, having kids or retiring.

About social contracts---I don't know, but I know what I am going to do and that is to promote peace, order and most of all, empathy.

I use the Internet only from my office. Yesterday, at the end of my working day, as i do pretty much everyday, i took some time to check this blog and i read your last comment to mine (in the previous post). I had all of the sudden something to say about it, but i had to go, so i promised myself i would have done it this morning. I couldn't wait to come to the office in order to do it, and i would have done it if i didn't find this new post to comment.
That's it. I think i will miss these discussions in the future, if you are going to close this blog. Thanks for all the stuffs we were able to discuss each others in the past.

I have always considered Moral as a set of individual rules, which application was "for free". I believe that really moral is who does what he believes it's good without expecting anything in change.
Moral, to me is not a "contract". You say "it is in our own best interest to care for others as we would want to be cared for". No, i believe that doing good is not finalize to have a similar good back. On the opposite i find it more moral to do something good for somebody who won't do any good back to us.
I always found this view a tad selfish. If i do something that i believe moral, which has some influence to the good of others, i do it for myself, because the achievement of my moral good is necessary to find my own happiness. And not because it is the good of the others. Nevertheless it is also altruist, because upon my moral, contributing to the good of the others is good. In other words i try to behave altruist because it's part of my moral, and i want to follow my moral because i am selfish.

So, my moral is contemporarily individual and absolute. Individual, because it belongs to me and somebody else can have a different one. But also absolute, because it is applied to everybody. For example, "killing is wrong" is a rule of my moral, because i believe that killing is wrong for everybody, also for those eventual ones that believe that it is good.
The social "contract" is the formalization of a set of rules that everybody should follow despite their finding them moral to theirselves or not. And that's why we cannot give that "contract" a moral value.

I believe in my individual moral and i work to try to behave upon its rules, although i admit that it is not absolute. Or, better, continuously re-modeling my moral trying as much as i can to take in consideration that others' moral can be different.

I am flattered to be included in the set of people that gave you so much, although i believe i don't deserve it very much. Infact i always tried to give my best to any particular debate, discussin the subject itself more than the moral rules that caused my thought.
In this blog i had the opportunity to know the point of view of very different people, and i learnt to accept them although their values are different than mine, and i was honored to be accepted in the same way.
This is, actually, the reason i always considered this group so precious.

Hugs
dario

"Regardless of your idea of morality, this applies to you."

Surely you can see the self-contradiction involved in this statement.

The confusion is not because there is an easily observed absolute morality, but rather because too often in an attempt to respect all voices, we treat all voices as equal.  In fact, saying equal is equivocal.  Each person has a voice, and quantitatively each voice should have a share in the public discourse.  Equality.  Each person has a rationality.  Qualitatively each rational voice is different, and some are more highly developed and more consistent than others.  Inequality.

I'm not suggesting there is a guru or point of observation that externally can determine which voices are the qualitatively better.  However, your own (unintentional, I believe, and thus excusable) hypocrisy in forcing a morality of relativism demonstrates that the observation of subjective morality may be a little misguided.  Instead, perhaps we should look at universal moral truths that permit the widest variety of personal moral beliefs.  This is indeed a transubjective morality that transcends social, linguistic, and credal solipsism, while still respecting the impossibility of a universally accepted and recognized absolute morality.

I have been absent.  But if you must take action, I must urge you not to draw a false conclusion from your lengthy experiment.  Please take my sincerest apologies for any offense in this response to examine whether the dichotomy of objective and subjective is not the root of our error, rather than the necessary alternatives.

How silly of me to think narrowmindedly and consider the Nazis immoral. After all they were acting in accordance with the laws (morals) of their own nation. Thanks for enlightening me ...well, it's off to deflower my daughter ...take care.

Hummmm ..... if we asked you to stay active really nice would it help????? That said from probably the worst blogger in xanga...I totally understand why you feel the need to step back. Life is about choices and the choices we make to be active in the daily lives of those around us has to come first!!

I will miss your thought provoking questions, I haven't taken time to comment and be involved in the discussions much of late but have enjoyed the pricking of my mind.

As to the social contract and how I keep it.....For me it's important to remember that human beings are more important than "national" interests, that we are all the same under the skin. I'm a firm believer that we make the biggest difference in the community we live in and work out from that circle. I invest my time and energy close to home working with homeless teens and 20 somethings, my $ is directed to the outer circle so to speak where hopefully those in the far away communities are using it wisely. For me the "contract" also involves this earth we walk on, protecting "umbrella" species weather they be plants or animals from greed and ignorance. Caring for the earth to me goes hand in hand with caring for people.

Hey it was fun while it lasted :(

I'll miss this place, I'm running out of decent places to argue :/

Good Luck, God Bless.

All things have their time... with a beginning and and end...which is often just another new beginning.

For a morality to not be so 'liquid', it must be reasoned out and belived in...  This cannot be done with sheep who just follow blindly the teachings and sayings of others.  My responsibility is to learn how to think for myself and to actually think.  My 'job' is to try and get others to think.. not to agree with me, but to think for themselves and actually take some responsibility for what they believe.

Sometimes your blogs were good for that, sometimes, not so much.  Either way, yours was a blog worth reading and will be sorely missed.

Enjoy your new beginnings.

Dance On!

Thank you for the consideration for my entries. I really enjoyed this site while I could participate.

I try to teach people from the West about the East, and vice versa.  I hope I can encourage global dialogue and empathy. 

I have really enjoyed your posts, and wish you well, I will miss this forum. 

hey simone.

i'm just deleting xanga friends who are inactive now, and so i thought i should just say good-bye.

i dunno if you remember me, or if you'll read this. i only participated in socrates cafe a couple of times. but i appreciated your input to the ideas i was exploring. i think you've started something really neat with Socrate's Cafe, and i think whatever greater mission you may have had behind it was of a high purpose. thanks for noticing me on xanga and letting me know about it. it was a fun few months i was involved.

sort of surreal in my memory. living in the an ecovillage in mountains, with an electronic philosophical connection to this group.

i hope you're doing wonderful, wherever you may be. i wish you much luck in what you're doing. thanks for being a philosopher and encouraging that in others. the world needs more people like you

- Zeno